Michelle Dinneen-White was working in an early education outreach program when she realized something. The program wasn’t actually reaching out to the families who needed it most. Those families were still required to find the time and the means to get their child to the center in order to receive services. And for many, that barrier was just too much to overcome. So Michelle decided to create something new. The program is called Play Smart Literacy and it serves families in the Chicago area. It’s a fully mobile outreach program, one that actually reaches OUT and INTO the most vulnerable communities. And what is their mission? To build language and relationships through play.
Michelle and her parent play leaders go to where the families are – parks, shelters, mobile markets, Head Start and early care programs, laundromats, gas stations – and they build real relationships with the families they meet, while at the same time building the families’ understanding of the connections between play, talk, and child development …AND building their confidence as parents as well. Their message is clear: EVERY parent has the ability to have a strong positive influence on their child’s future.
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Notes from the Show:
(*May contain affiliate links.)
Continue the series with Episode 75: Empowering Parents as Teachers – Mobile Early Education Outreach Team (With Play Smart Literacy)
Learn more at Play Smart Literacy’s website.
Tammy’s Books:
The Gift of Words: How Do Children Learn to Talk? by Talmage Steele
The Gift of Math: Twelve Math Conversation Starters for Parents and Young Children by Talmage Steele
Resources Mentioned:
Life is Good – Playmaker Project
Thirty Million Words Initiative by Dr. Dana Suskind
Resources on Serve and Return from Harvard’s Center on the Developing Child
Learning Sciences Exchange (LSX) with Dr. Kathy Hirsh Pasek
Rebecca Rolland: The Art of Talking with Children (book) (video)
Maya Payne Smart: Reading for Our Lives
Why We Play
Share the importance of play with the Why We Play letters! Learn more about Why We Play and sign up for the sample letter at the bottom to ensure you hear about any VIP discounts by clicking here!
Transcript
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This transcript was created with Podium.
Highlights:
(00:03) Empowering Families Through Education and Play
(13:30) Transforming Education Through Community Engagement
(25:15) Empowering Families Through Play-Based Learning
(34:46) Empowering Parents Through Playful Communication
(46:54) Supporting PlaySmart Literacy and Outreach
(57:18) Don’t Miss Episode Highlights and Resources
Transcript:
00:03 – Amanda (Host)
Hi, I’m Amanda Morgan, and this is Not Just Cute the podcast where we discuss all kinds of topics to help bridge the gap that exists between what we know and what we do in early childhood education. We’re starting conversations with academics, authors, decision makers, educators and parents so that together we can improve the quality of early childhood education while at the same time protecting and respecting the childhood experience. One of the very best parts of doing the work that I do is that, whether it’s in person as I travel to work with various groups, or right here on the podcast, I get to meet so many people who are doing amazing, inspiring things for children and families. They’re all essentially working from the same important principles and research, but they’re putting it to work in so many diverse and, honestly, miraculous ways, and that gets me really excited. I mean, it gives me goosebumps right now just thinking about it, because, as much as I love nerding out on the research and tying it together to help people to better understand it and implement it and articulate it to others, the reality is, none of that matters if it isn’t used to do something to make life better for children, and so that’s the thrill for me to get to meet so many people who are using that information to do really important things for children. It’s also fun to see all the different forms that that work can take on, because, as I’ve said before, diversity is inherent in human development. We have to be able to take principles and information and standards and make them work for real living humans Because, as I’ve said before, diversity is inherent in human development. We have to be able to take principles and research and information and standards and make that work for real living humans. That means there’s no one size fits all. I love talking with people who are willing to think outside of the box and to innovate in order to serve the unique people and solve the unique problems that are right in front of them. In the next two episodes, I’ll be featuring another amazing example of this.
02:34
Michelle Deneen White was working in an early education outreach program when she had a realization the program wasn’t actually reaching out to the families who needed it most. Those families were still required to find the time and the means to get their child to the center in order to receive services, and for many of them that barrier was just too much to overcome. So Michelle decided to create something new. The program is called PlaySmart Literacy and it serves families in the Chicago area. It’s a fully mobile outreach program, one that actually reaches out and into the most vulnerable communities. And what’s their mission? Most vulnerable communities and what’s their mission? To build language and relationships through play. Michelle and her parent play leaders go to where the families are Parks, shelters, mobile markets, head Start and early care programs, laundromats, gas stations and they build real relationships with the families. They meet there, while at the same time building the family’s understanding of the connections between play, talk and child development and building their confidence as parents as well. Their message is clear Every parent has the ability to have a strong, positive influence on their child’s future. Using various resources, including the books the Gift of Words and the Gift of Math by Talmadge Steele, they help parents see that something as simple as adding words to everyday experiences can actually have a tremendous impact on their child’s development. And they don’t just tell the parents, they show them, they empower them, they follow up and they cheer them on.
04:36
In this episode, I’m joined by Michelle Deneen White, the founder of PlaySmart Literacy, as well as one of her inspirations Talmadge or Tammy Steele. Literacy, as well as one of her inspirations Talmadge or Tammy Steele. They’ll share their vision for community outreach and parent education and the ways that PlaySmart literacy makes supporting child development accessible for every family. In the next episode, episode 75, I’ll be talking again with Michelle and also with some of her team. I hope that you’ll join me there as well to hear more about how this program works, but also to hear the passion that fuels the people behind this amazing movement and to hear the ways that it has literally changed lives. Both episodes are available now, so you don’t have to wait. You can jump right in today. You can find this episode’s show notes, which are always full of links, tidbits and resources, at notjustcutecom forward slash podcast. Forward slash, episode 74.
05:38
Before we jump in, a quick reminder that you can check out the why we Play letters and grab a free sample letter by going to notjustcutecom forward slash whyweplay. As I’ve said over and over, people don’t value what they don’t understand, so let’s do our best to help others understand and value play. The why we Play letters were written to help you do just that. Grab your sample letter today at notjustcutecom forward slash why we play. Michelle and Tammy are a fantastic team. The way they’re able to take big ideas and deep developmental topics and make them simple, applicable and accessible for every parent is truly a gift, and the way they’re using that gift is literally changing lives.
06:30
If you’re wondering how you can take your own passion for early learning and make a difference in your community, you’ll find some amazing inspiration here. Let’s jump in. Well, michelle and Tammy, I am so excited to talk with you today and just thrilled with what you’re sharing. So I want to start off by hearing a little bit about your own paths that have brought you to serve young children and families. So if you could each tell a little bit about, just briefly, that journey that you’ve taken personally in your profession, and then also what brought you two together to the project that you’re now working on.
07:05 – Michelle (Guest)
Sure. So I started PlaySmart Literacy nine years ago now. I was doing work I’d been an educator for 25 years or so at that time, or over 20 years and really just saw a gap, something that was missing in the environment. I was working at a family literacy center and the families that were the most vulnerable had the most trouble coming or coming with regularity and really being an active part of what was going on there, and so I just kind of evolved this idea. So it’s early literacy and family engagement, outreach and completely mobile and free, and we reach families online and in person, and it has really evolved from there. The way that I met Tammy. And it has really evolved from there.
08:04
The way that I met Tammy, who is such an important part of my work, I was giving a talk on dialogic reading, which is just education speak for, talk and play and afterwards and told me about her book that she had written the Gift of Words and conversation starters for how to talk to your young child, and I just loved it. It was very visual and very practical and an amazing meld of you know, science and how to, and so I went home and before we met soon after for lunch, but I looked her up and found a picture of her on her website and it was Tammy at a picnic table outside with a bunch of women and talking about her book. And after I read the caption and saw that she was sharing her work with women at a rehab center, and I was just in love with this woman. Everything that she did I’m like. This is everything I want to be in my own life and I’m just so amazed by her work.
09:17
So she has been a constant. She’s so generous with her work and allowing us at PlaySmart to really make it foundational in what we want to do. From day one. She has got it, which she understands what we want to do. We have a kind of shared vision. So I’m sorry.
09:35 – Tammy (Guest)
Part of our shared vision was that you, my parents, are really, really, really important. I grew up in Arkansas and I was the oldest of six children and my mother didn’t have a college degree and so but she loved talking to children and I remember asking her how did children learn to talk? And she said well, it’s a miracle.
09:56
And that’s about where the state of the science was. We didn’t know anything, but now we, between computers and COVID and research brain scans, we know know that some of the things that my mother was doing was we’re right, and children learn best from the person they love the most and they have the best time with, and that’s their mom usually, and so we I was into moms and empowering them to know the power of what they were doing. My mother just thought it was miraculous, but it wasn’t, and she had three kids that got PhDs.
10:31 – Michelle (Guest)
So just talking to moms. Tammy’s been an awesome link to bringing that really strong science and making it digestible for families and I call caregivers, I call them family leaders, anyone who has a small child in their life and making that really accessible for them to recognize their powerful role in making that connection between talk, play and learning for their small child. With Tammy’s second book it’s between talk, play and math learning. She does that in really concrete ways. So that basic message, though, about taking that strong science and wrapping it in the warmth of your own play at home, is what we have worked together hard. That’s what we’re always hard at work. How can we do that better all the time?
11:34 – Amanda (Host)
Well, I want to get on some of those strategies from your books in a moment, tammy, but I want to hear a little bit about how.
11:40
So we see the big vision for your PlaySmart literacy and, like you said, it is so much more than just the literacy aspect. That is key, but it’s also in the context of play and relationships, which you know is also key to learning and development. So what does that look like? So you have this vision. You want to improve literacy, both for the parents and the children, and you want to be able to reach and connect with parents who may not feel secure in their literacy themselves, and you want to empower them to help their children to become literate, to support their development and their learning. And you, like you mentioned in your previous program, you could see that those who needed it most had the most difficult time accessing it regularly. So how do you take this vision and this challenge and you create this new program? What does that new delivery system look like? What do you do with what you know? What do you do with that?
12:34 – Michelle (Guest)
Yeah, so we are really happy to be completely mobile and so we send out a number of touch points every week, online and in person. So we have a digital newsletter that comes two times a week and they can sign up on our website. We do not have an app, because that was kind of a roadblock to entry for a lot of people, so this is more accessible. So this is more accessible. And then we have a feedback loop that we keep in touch with families. We have a data platform that actually, so we send out a number of these touch points every week and then we recognize even gentle responses from families as significant, and so our data platform captures their engagement. Our feedback loop lets them know how they’re doing.
13:31
They earn family engagement points for engaging with us, for replying, for opening our newsletters, for taking a workshop, for meeting a set of events, and the main call to action is by sharing a play date. And the question during the play date is from Tammy’s work what’s the word while you’re talking and playing for 10 minutes? What’s the word that your baby, toddler or a preschooler is interested in, that your child’s interested in, while you’re playing, and they share that with us. They earn points for that, so that you know we amplify a threat of development for families, so that they recognize it’s not just these random things. Oh, I saw something about one, two, three say what you see here and we talked something we looked at. So it ties it together as a thread of development that this is all important and we celebrate it’s all about invitations to play with us and to join with us and then at whatever you know tier of engagement that you want and celebrating that.
14:34 – Tammy (Guest)
So one of the important things is that computers are really a lousy teacher by themselves. So you don’t want to stick a kid in front of the computer, but you want to stick the mom in front of the computer to give her advice on how to get where she’s going and to give her feedback, which is the value of what she’s doing is important, and so we emphasize the value of play and of talking about play and giving children the words they need for the ideas they already have, so that’s in real life, and then play. Smart literacy goes out to places like laundromats and gas stations to find the moms, and the moms are in their kitchen can do things from the computer, yes, and so it’s. It’s, it’s a multi-prong. When she says completely mobile, that’s what she’s been talking about.
15:27 – Michelle (Guest)
For those people my age who don’t know what completely mobile means, so it’s just trying to make it accessible and streamlined, you know, between real life and connecting and getting support online even when you’re at home. So we use QRs a lot. We gave out 9,400 books last year and dropped them in little free libraries all over, especially vulnerable neighborhoods in Chicago. Well, every book has our messaging on it and QRs for how they can beyond the book kind of experiences that they can connect with us and share their play dates when they get home. So we also have many workshops that families can take on Tammy’s guidebook either book.
16:17
And so I was reminded of last year when our team is completely grassroots at Play Smart. So we have parents that have been trained as parent play leaders. They’re going out doing this outreach in their own neighborhoods, which is so powerful because they are like missionary about this work. They absolutely love it. They recognize. I mean, that’s where you get our fuel from. I get my fuel from these guys and they get their fuel from the people that they interact with.
16:49
But, they just to see parents, adults, lights go off in the.
16:56
I got it you know I get it and you’re talking, and that’s what happens when they have these. More than you know, they talk to more than 200 people a week on average about the importance of talk and play. And they do that through our play themes and ideas that come out in our strategies, that are in our newsletters, and then they bring that to life and they go out and talk to people. And then they bring that to life and they go out and talk to people. But we have our mini workshops and my team was giving this to a mother more than a year ago I think about a year and a half ago. So we met this mom. It’s just to explain how this kind of works. We were at a nearby pantry every week for about a year and we stood by the diapers and just met people. And again, it’s about invitations. It’s about making friends and reaching out to people and giving them information. When they were grabbing the diapers, we give them information about PlaySmart Literacy and followed up with them. So we met this mom there. Then the shelter got closed for a little while and this is why we are completely mobile and we move with people as their situations change. So we met at the. We put in our newsletter that we’d be in the laundromat which was a block away from the pantry, and she met us there and two of my outreach team gave her the workshop, which is experiential. It’s one hour of math talk, the gift of math. And she did the workshop with her toddler at the laundromat, in Spanish, and I was just there watching this unfold and kind of like help, supporting Brenda and Cecilia as they were learning how to give the workshop. And you know, does that matter? Well, you know, you wonder, because what we do is a couple powerful connections a day. Okay, so does that matter? How many people were there? You know what did we do? She was doing that in Spanish with her toddler while her kindergartner was in half-day school and then picking him up after. Well, last word, we did have some communication with that mom, definitely throughout the year, but this just past Christmas.
19:19
After Christmas, I went in our data platform. Look what happened. I went in our data platform, look what happened, and saw that someone submitted a play date on Christmas morning and when I looked more into it and you can see the pictures that she sent, and the word that she sent in that he was interested in was Conejo, which is Spanish for bunny. She had this mom. It was the same mom that had taken the workshop Spoiler alert. She had this mom. It was the same mom that had taken the workshop spoiler alert.
19:47
Had gone and looked at the email that we sent and that our intern translated and sent the Spanish email every week. Knew that we did the book drop at the Little Free Library right by her house, went there on Christmas morning and got the book, had the play date with her children at the park, which is exactly what we want. Reading the book at the park. I mean, could it get more? These are exactly the outcomes. Then shared, submitted her play date and then to find out that this happened only because our outreach team themselves had given her the workshop on math talk a year before. I mean, that, to me, is like. This is so important. This is what we want happening every day, lots of times over, all over the place, and how can we make that happen more often?
20:44 – Tammy (Guest)
I was just saying. This is what we mean by transforming education. It’s not in the classroom, it’s not in front of 30 kids, but it’s not with a test from NAEP. It’s in the gas station in the everyday moments.
20:56 – Amanda (Host)
And you can see the lasting effects of that. For that, like you said, that you work with this mom and a year later you can see that there’s still that impact and that you get that one glimpse a year later. But how many other little moments along the way were transformed because of the information that she’d gained? So let me I want to see if I can get my head around the way without oversimplifying the way that the program lays out. So you have your website, your newsletter, you have these data points that you collect and that’s a hub where they can get the information they can stay in touch with where the book drops are, where the workshops might be happening, and then you send people out into the community to find where the families are, and especially those of high need that might not be getting these kinds of services. So you’re at the laundromats, the food pantries, different resources, where you might find those families, and at that point you’re just sharing the program with them. Is that correct? Just letting them know that it’s available yeah.
21:52 – Michelle (Guest)
They do a little bit of everything.
21:53
They are like amazing marketers. So, yes, they’re at line. In line at the Fresh Moves mobile market, which is at a health clinic, or you know, it goes to different sites, and so they. We put in the newsletter that they’re going to be there. We go into shelters and say we’ll bring a play date. Bring the play theme of the week P is for pizza and we’ll bring the pizza play. Bring that newsletter to life. Bring the QRs that say okay, here’s the newsletter, use your camera right now, let’s look at that, let’s play this right now. It’s always about very simple play. It’s not anything sophisticated that they cannot play without, you know.
22:34 – Amanda (Host)
All the things.
22:36 – Michelle (Guest)
Yes, they’re able to do it easily and then say, let’s now, this is a PlaySmart play date, let’s add the word and have them add the word. So when they’re meeting people, if we don’t know them at all, they introduce them about PlaySmart literacy and literally usually we’re really good at this. Where you know, I used to do all of this. Now I do hardly any of it, which is great.
23:00 – Amanda (Host)
The team is doing it, it means it’s growing.
23:03 – Michelle (Guest)
Yes, exactly that’s the dream, right, but we’re used to having like 30 seconds with people. It’s while they’re in line, while they’re coming in and out of a head start, while they’re, you know, in the middle of other things. So we ask them do you have a small child in your life? Yes, okay, then give them with. Our flyer is interactive. There’s three QRs right on there. They can register right from there for PlaySmart. Then they’re part of. They’re gonna be getting our touch points online. They’re like in the system and then let them know that we want you to. They’re like in the system and then let them know that we want you to get the information, the ideas. We invite you to try them at home. Do 10 minutes of talk and play and then tell us about it, share your play date and then earn engagement points, and then you know there’s all the other offerings that we can have.
23:49
We’re also really lucky to partner with World Reader, and so, even on our website, anyone can go to the website, and you don’t have to. You don’t have to be part of PlaySmart. You can click and download the World Reader app and have free access to books at home as well. What we would love is just tell us tell us what you did with the 34,000 diapers that we gave out last year, Cause diaper time is talk time you know, how was your play date while you were changing the diaper?
24:23 – Amanda (Host)
Yes, and that word play date. I love that you’ve broken it down to something so simple because I think a lot of us hear play date and that’s an elaborate thing. You gather lots of children or at least another child, but it’s just you and your child. That’s a play date. But it brings that intention to it that I had an intentional play date with them. We had a meaningful conversation intentionally.
24:42 – Michelle (Guest)
Absolutely and recognizing the power and the hope and the joy in that right. And Tammy is really great for reiterating and repeating, repeating, repeating the simple, the simple and important foundation of all of this. Over one, two, three, say what you see.
25:01 – Tammy (Guest)
And play DNA which is learning the child play and then describing and naming and asking questions of the child in that order. So you get started on a conversation that they’re interested in.
25:15 – Amanda (Host)
I think that’s a gift, Tammy, to take really big ideas and explain them in very simple ways, which is what you’ve done.
25:21 – Tammy (Guest)
I’m sort of math-phobic myself, and so I like the idea that changing your diaper is a math concept which is a pattern. Every day, you change my diapers at least five times, and when you do that you can talk about more. One of the issues is teaching the word more. It’s very hard to know whether you want more trucks or more mittens. More has to be explained in about 5,000 ways before kids get it, and so teaching the word more is teaching math, which is not what most people think they’re doing. So I’m lousy at public calculation. I don’t offer to add up anything in public, but teach the word more.
26:06 – Michelle (Guest)
And when Tammy explains this so beautifully there’s two parts of food and food in the first book and the second book.
26:14
But the concept of more or less and being something that babies are aware of and exploring even from infancy, with more food, more pasta, more milk and and that is something that she gets that word out a lot we really align with that. I’ve seen families react to that specific message in her math talk workshop that my team was giving. See really adults getting excited because they are making that connection. First of all, seeing their role in making the connection for their small child, that they are making the connection between talk, play and math learning just by eating a meal together and talking about it. So it’s really powerful stuff. It really is. And to what PlaySmart and our work together, my work with Tammy, is about, is amplifying that. Look what’s happening here right now. You are doing it, you’re doing it and you’re doing it so well and all this important stuff is happening. You know, in our training we have information about how, during talk and play, adult and child brain syncs together in really important ways.
27:40
So you are changing together and you’re changing them physiologically and it’s really important and powerful and this is what gives people the fuel. We say families inspiring other families for them to learn more, become parent, play leaders and share this message with others and to really share that. But yeah, I hope I’m explaining it’s very organic because when people realize it, they get excited and they want to tell more people.
28:16 – Amanda (Host)
And so those workshops that you’ve talked about, I want to hear a little more about how that works. You mentioned the one that they gave at a laundromat. Is that planned and scheduled, or is that something they say do you have time and we’ll teach a workshop right now? Or does it do both?
28:29 – Michelle (Guest)
The workshop is made to be, I mean, hybrid. It can be online or in person, so we’ve given them both ways. We are trying to. Those are the mini workshops and they take five minutes. But yeah, we’re doing those more in public spaces so we do love to do it in the laundromat, in the shelter, different places at the park, by the little free libraries. But what also happens all the time when our outreach team is out and about is that they are kind of having more spontaneous visits with people and that as they meet people, they can turn it into a play date. They can turn anything into a play date If they’re meeting someone who’s already registered with us. They’re just having that conversation about something fun and asking them the word right there. It’s kind of like modeling, right?
29:21
and helping navigate it and okay, while we’re here, they’re digital mentors and let’s open up your phone or my phone and let’s do this as a play date. Now you just did your first play date. We actually just met a woman like that at the Nature Museum.
29:37 – Tammy (Guest)
The Note of Art Museum had an event with the Alliance for Early Education. We were there and picked up about 40 different people.
29:49 – Michelle (Guest)
Yes, and one of them was a mother who had actually been with us for like three or four years with her preschoolers. So she registered with us at a nearby Head Start and had been with us for a few years and she came up to the table. She was super friendly. She had did her first play date while we were there. So people can follow along and become part of us. They become deeper given over time. So she has opened our newsletter hundreds of times. She’s met us at different places. She’s read the book. She sat in one of our workshops that we did have at the center, but she had never done a play date. So Cecilia said well, this is your first play date and had her just say what the word you know what’s the word that your child’s interested in. And then they did that together.
30:44
So it again is meant to be. It is non-linear. That’s why it’s a little hard to explain sometimes. But I like to just think, recognize that it’s all open. It’s open and invitational for everyone and we are absolutely thrilled with everybody’s level of response. You know we find people that may have we met initially and then they opened our newsletter, you know, for the next year and a half. And then we, with our feedback loop, nudged them again and said okay, we’re going to be at the laundromat, right by you, or there’s this community event that’s right by you, why don’t you come meet us? And then they come. And then from that little personal engagement then they go deeper. After that, then they’re sending in a play date or taking a workshop. They want to know how they can become parent play leaders and do outreach in their own neighborhood.
31:45 – Amanda (Host)
I love that you meet people where they are and that you have, like you said, it’s nonlinear because it’s responsive, and that you literally meet them where they are in their communities, that you nudge them to say, hey, we’re coming to you, we’re just around the corner, we’ll find you, you come find us right.
32:01 – Michelle (Guest)
We can tell with our data platform, like how many actively engaged families that we have. That means that they’ve engaged in one of our components in the previous three months, and so we’re really happy that number just continues to grow. We have more than 900 now families in Chicago that many of them have moved several times since we first joined, and 70% of those families actually became part of PlaySmart two to five years ago. So this is meant to be something that stays with you as you transition from maybe from a head start and to a different learning path. Maybe you have one child goes on to learning, they have new children, that and then they get in touch with us and sometimes even paths change for people from a shelter. Paths changed for people from a shelter They’ve been may.
32:59
We have had several families like this before, where the mother actually lost custody of their children for a while and they stayed and reached back out to us and wanted to keep learning more from PlaySmart to get ideas about how to connect again with their children. So we are really grateful for that. We’ve been moving more into that public health space and connecting with groups that do connect with people in this way to really recognize that this is a function that we can give people because it is so low. It is very high impact but low touch. So we’re the top of the pipeline.
33:38
You know, we’re just a way to introduce people to this idea, and then we have lots of resources and support to move people farther down, deeper into the pipeline. But if we don’t reach people and make that connection, then you don’t have engagement and then you don’t have learning, and so that’s where we really are and this is significant, it’s really important, it’s funny because it’s talk and play, and yet we can get involved in such really significant and serious situations in people’s lives. So we’re just completely grateful that someone would recognize and groups would us. The science, the meat, the practice. We say building a joyful practice at home is because of these specifics that Tammy has written.
34:46 – Amanda (Host)
Well, tammy, I want to hear a little bit more about your background that brought you to this point of writing those books, and then I want to hear a little bit more about what’s in the books. We’ve mentioned just a little bit of it, but tell me first about how you got there. We, we left off, where you were just a young child and your mom was teaching you about the magic of learning how to talk. So how did you go from there to where you are now?
35:07 – Tammy (Guest)
Well, I came to Chicago to teach to teach art. I was a visual artist and so I went to the Art Institute for two years but I already had a BA degree so I didn’t really need to stick around for the rest of the degree. So I left and I went to the public schools and for a long time I taught junior high and then I taught preschool and then I taught. I couldn’t stand working with an institution I’m not very institutional and so I wanted to work with the Board of Ed kids, but I didn’t want to work with the Board of Ed. So I did a whole bunch of grants and the longest best one was CAPE, which is Chicago Arts Partners in Education, and we integrated dancers and theater people and music people to into teaching other subjects.
36:04
So, for instance, in fifth grade they learned force, energy and motion. In fifth grade, instead of watching the teacher jump up and down, we got to the dancers to teach them how to jump up and down and call it force, energy and motion. So we were integrating physics with dance with fifth grade, and that’s what got me interested in seeing the connection between integration and the importance of having parents and community people like dancers be educators. They were the best educators that came across were dancers, so that got me interested in the way of teaching. And then I worked with daycare, again as a consultant in some projects and then I wrote the book. When we got to COVID I couldn’t do anything else, so I stayed home. Plus, I have Parkinson’s, so I’m not very mobile.
37:09
She wrote her second book during COVID Right but yeah, actually, it’s a good thing to do if we have another pandemic. I recommend everybody write a book.
37:21 – Amanda (Host)
Everybody just write a book. That’s a great recommendation and one of the things I love about these books, they’re really unique in that I feel like it’s a combination of a picture book and also a guidebook, like a deep instructional manual for parents. But, just like we said before, it’s a really deep concept in a really simple way, so that it teaches parents how to talk with their children at the same time that they are actually talking with their children.
37:49 – Tammy (Guest)
Right, and you can take one page and do it for a month as opposed to read straight through the book. It’s just how to do it, and the two simple things are say what you see and play DNA.
38:01 – Amanda (Host)
Yeah, can you explain those two pieces to us? So tell us a little bit more about Say what you See. It sounds simple and it’s a simple way to remember it, but it’s a really deep practice.
38:10 – Tammy (Guest)
Well, if you go up to where a child is playing and you say I see that you’re playing with the trucks, that’s Say what you See and giving the kid the name truck for the truck. So that’s really simple. You’re just introducing the fact that you want to talk to the child and the child may push the truck around or do something else. You can describe what the truck’s doing and that’s described, but then you have to name it so it’s a fire truck. So you tell them the name and then you say questions can the fire truck go fast or can the fire truck go uphill or can? What can the fire truck do that you want to play with? And it’s just literally mirroring what the child is doing with words and giving them.
39:00
Because learning to speak a second language is a lot like learning to speak a first language, your second language. If you were an adult learning spanish, you would want another adult who could speak english sitting there translating for you over and over and over again. Well, children need that too. They need you to say over and over and over again firetruck and up and fast, or whatever the word is that interests the child. You get to say it more than once.
39:32 – Amanda (Host)
And that’s the play DNA, the describe, name and ask, which is really again a simple process. But sometimes we need those intentional markers to help us recognize that it can be that simple we need those intentional markers to help us recognize that it can be that simple.
39:51 – Tammy (Guest)
Well, you know, I had a movie of my sister and her child and she must have said what she saw 45 times in this movie and it’s very interesting. People do it either automatically because it was done to them when they were babies, or they don’t know how to do it because it wasn’t done to them when they were babies. So it’s simple to do, but it’s not easy to do if you didn’t have it done to you. It’s not instinctual right, it’s not entirely instinctual.
40:14 – Michelle (Guest)
That’s why I think the book is so helpful. I know that just getting that awareness out. So the part that and we repeat this in our emails all the time but just children need a grown-up to say the words out loud. Your child needs you. You know, this is right from the book Conversation starter on start the day with talk time so it’s possible to get out of the door in 10 words or in 2,000 words. It doesn’t take more time. It takes more words, any words one, two, three. Just say what you see.
40:49
Because we see a lot of the time when we’re talking with parents and families that they feel they don’t have enough time or they don’t know what to do exactly. So the book is so great and I say even just open up, besides repeating Tammy’s lines very often, which we do, we give the book and then say open up the book and to the page and start the day with talk time. And that’s about brushing your teeth. Put the book, open it up. And this is what I say to parents when they look give that worried, look like well, how do I do this? Open the book up and put it wherever you brush your child brushes his teeth or where their teddy bear brushes their teeth, you know, and then keep it there, you know. Do the same thing with shelters Like this is a great place in the play area, keep the book open or right in the dining room area.
41:41
You know I just had a conversation yesterday about that.
41:44 – Amanda (Host)
And I love, like you mentioned, because it appeals to children, that this is the kind of book the child will bring to the parent, you know, just like they would with any other book that they love, because they know that that’s where they get this interaction, and so the prompt is self-reinforcing, whether it’s visually or because the children are bringing it.
42:03 – Michelle (Guest)
It’s also something that you know we deal a lot with the reality that parents are overburdened and really overstimulated, especially because we focus on underserved areas, with just a lot of challenges, a lot of violence every day, a lot of different huge challenges that are going on every day. That this book is welcoming and it’s easy, and it’s something that is easy for them to kind of grasp a hold of and not feel like I don’t know how on earth am I going to be able to learn and, you know, convey this now. It’s not something another thing for them to do. Hopefully, it’s something it’s an invitation again for playful conversation which seems a lot more appealing and easy to get excited about than something that you know we may. I mean I love research and I love education, but I mean people that have all of their headspace already taken up with super important things. That this is meant to be something, not an additional burden, right, it’s something that is inviting.
43:21 – Tammy (Guest)
It’s where you start. Sometimes it’s hard to know where to start. You start where people are. If they are at a place where you don’t know how to talk to a child. You feel stupid talking to a little kid, or you feel like you’re not doing anything important when you talk to a little kid. Those things are wrong, and so we want you to know how important it is and how smart you are to talk to a child.
43:49 – Michelle (Guest)
You’re making that child’s whole life better and yeah, tammy’s work really and his, her wording really makes that come clear for people because literally we get that a lot, you know, hear that a lot like oh well, I have a baby, so they can’t talk, yet you know, hear that a lot like oh well, I have a baby, so they can’t talk.
44:08
Yet you know this isn’t for them or they’re not ready for this. Or you know working with adults who are trying to read to their child and then they say they’re not ready, it didn’t work you know, and it’s like actually it’s working perfectly.
44:19
This is the whole process, and you hate to see them get frustrated. So her messaging is so beautiful because it’s saying you are making the connection, you’re exactly where we, this is perfect, and let’s you know you are doing the right thing, and and so so is she, so is your baby, and let’s kind of enliven to what’s going on here well, and the research does show that children in third grade, if they have a bigger vocabulary that holds them straight through high school, they do better in high school.
44:52 – Tammy (Guest)
The ones with bigger vocabularies who can understand the word. It’s important to know how to sound it out, to read it, but it’s more important to understand what it means. And that’s where the parent comes in is a step before phonics is. You have to know what the word means in order to make it make sense and dana suskin with 30 million word initiative.
45:12 – Michelle (Guest)
Um last year came out with even more uh research showing that adults and parents who found out just at birth about the importance of these in um interactions back and serve and return back and forth conversations, we’re more apt to be practicing this nine months later, and so it’s just a matter of knowing when they recognize the importance of this and it’s done in a way that’s appealing and like wow, playful conversation, and then to know that so it’s so easy to do, so simple and yet so important, that they will absolutely go and get the job done that the world needs.
45:56
So that’s really hopeful for everyone to know that they can change the world today just by having a playful conversation with a small child.
46:04 – Amanda (Host)
I love that, and when I listened to you talk about your work with talking and with play and bringing it into the community, I thought you know this sounds so much like the work that Kathy Hirsch-Pasek and Roberto Golinkoff do, and then I realized you do work with them. Tell us a little bit about how that integrates here as well.
46:23 – Michelle (Guest)
Sure. So I am a fellow for the Learning Science Exchange, which is led by Kathy Hirsch-Pasek and Roberta Galenkov, and I’m doing a special project for that, now called Joy Lives here. It’s a really cool piece of my journey with LSX Learning Exchange, this global fellowship where we’re all about mixing things up across different sectors to bring new ideas to early childhood development. The tie-in with this type of work and mental health resilience and trauma informed care and all the research that has come out about that is also really informative to what we are doing. And you know we do have a lot of information and practice with the Life is Good playmakers I’m a playmaker with them, but the other research that has come out about trauma-informed care and reaction.
47:21
So PlaySmart is about building play situations that build resilience and our mission is to build language and relationships through play. That’s something that we want to prompt within families, but it’s also something that we are building with this family engagement piece between PlaySmart and families, so building a relationship with families as well. And this is all part of that model that says you build resilience for mental health when you lower risk factors and then add protective layers, protective factors so, optimism and play and literacy are all protective factors in relationship building.
48:07
Yes, and language is absolutely. You know, Australia has done a lot of really good public policy work on this and tying these together. So we’ve been behind, but we’re getting there.
48:19 – Amanda (Host)
We’re catching up. Well, I love the way that you weave all these together with a playful, joyful approach, which is so much of what you’re about and it’s so powerful to see that. How could people support your work? They see what you’re doing and they’re really excited about that. What are some ways that they could support your work or expand your work to where they are?
48:48 – Michelle (Guest)
expand your work to where they are. We welcome everyone who sees that they have a place in helping us. We’re looking for volunteer and engagement. So anyone who wants to contribute time as volunteers in PlaySmart programs to directly support literacy activities or offer expertise or ideas in areas like marketing, fundraising or education to enhance our organizational capacity, they can just reach out to me with ideas and that’s how we got here was me reaching out to people who had awesome, awesome initiatives going on, including yourself, amanda, and other excellent programs. So anyone who is involved in anything like that and feels you have an idea you want to share, please reach out.
49:35
Also, we’re looking for partnerships and collaborations. We can form strategic alliances with groups. We want to integrate their literacy programs into existing services or co-create new initiatives to reach more families and communities. We’re very open to ideas for that and really seeking excellent partners and new initiatives. And lastly, financial and resource support. If you are anyone who can provide funding or donate resources such as books or educational materials. We really need a photocopy machine right now to support the expansion of PlaySmart. Programs and initiatives are helping to extend our reach and impact on early childhood literacy and family engagement. Really, we’re open to anything.
50:24 – Amanda (Host)
Oh, I love it.
50:25 – Michelle (Guest)
I was just gonna say we’re super grateful because that is really the magic. Like I could go on, you know, and hopefully I think we might have another conversation about outreach and our outreach team, but our partners and our outreach, that is what. Every time we meet new people or new leaders and new organizations and they become part, our program evolves and just it’s that creativity from our families, from these other groups. That’s why what’s what we need to be dynamic and to really create something awesome. So this is going to happen, right, that’s this is Tammy, and I have been sure of from day one. This is happening and we would. How are we going to do it? How?
51:06
are we going to make it happen even better. So hopefully we excited some people today and, yeah, let’s make it happen.
51:14 – Amanda (Host)
And, just like you said, that’s how you’ve built. What you have so far is by saying here’s what we know and here’s what we can offer. This is what it will do for people. And then, like you said, this grassroots effort which, like you mentioned, we need a whole separate segment for, because it’s this amazing groundswell of other people catching the vision and then sharing it with other people and really building the community around this shared purpose of helping young children and families. And that’s such an amazing thing to have built and an amazing thing to be able to spread to other communities, because I can’t think of any community that can’t use that right, use more support for young children and families. So I hope people take you up on your offer and expand this vision.
52:00 – Michelle (Guest)
Beautifully said. Thank you so much. I’m always inspired by other people’s amazing work and their generosity with it, and I should mention Rebecca Rollins. She, from Harvard, wrote the Art of Talking with Children and we want to get her message out. So we’ve used some of our interns to take talking points from her book and get that out and share that with parents. We have a wonderful new relationship with Maya Payne Smart, who wrote a literacy action for children reading for our lives and want to do more and more of that as well, so of getting her message. We’ve already done a couple collaborations but getting her amazing message and work, getting that into the hands and practice of more people in everyday lives. So, based on what you said, amanda, that is what we’re going for. Thank you, I want to give credit where it’s due and that we are inspired by other people’s amazing work and we just want to be that link and help. Let’s really support families and help them to use this.
53:13
We need to organize all these different groups to make changes in policy, both at the educational policy level and at the public policy level Absolutely, and recognizing that when we can train and help utilize these wonderful new educators, that we talk about these trusted messengers and fund them by training more adults living in vulnerable neighborhoods to do this outreach.
53:48
You know, we have a new growing partnership with a group called Peacekeepers and they are actually young, mainly young Black men. There are some women involved as well and they are going into violent hotspots and, you know, trying to broker peace agreements and we have a partnership with them with PlaySmart. So, recognizing that these are the missing link, these are the people that will really elevate this whole movement and funding that by getting us the ability to build on the structure and really have people doing grassroots messaging and grassroots outreach in their own neighborhoods. But funding that and making that happen as a policy level, as a decision that corporations want to support that other people but people supporting us in that way, is very obviously important. There’s no success without sustainability and that’s what we need.
54:59 – Amanda (Host)
And the ripple effects of that are so amazing. I know for me, I remember a lot of what shaped the pathway that I’ve taken. I remember sitting in my master’s classes, which were so amazing, and I love discussing all this research and nerding out on it and, as I know both of you love to do, and having that same epiphany that you have had. What does all this research matter if it doesn’t get to the people who are with the children? And I love that you have taken that to people who have not been able to have access to some of the same information. But you’ve brought it in a way that is just so joyful and so simple so that all this amazing research we have access to now everyone can have access to what that really means and what it really looks like to apply it with the children who are right in front of them, which is really what matters most. So thank you for doing that. It’s so amazing and thanks for sharing your story here.
55:53 – Michelle (Guest)
Well, thank you for having us. This is amazing, amanda, we are in awe of your work and and thank you for giving me a platform with Tammy, because again, I am like so grateful for everything, all her work and really excited call to be part of a larger stream of action, and so thank you very, very much. We’re super excited.
56:36 – Amanda (Host)
Thanks again for listening to Not Just Cute, the podcast. You can find show notes at notjustcutecom forward slash podcast. Forward slash episode 74. There you’ll find links to PlaySmart Literacy’s website where you can learn more about the program and how you can support or expand their work. You can also find out how to contact Michelle by email so that you can grow big ideas together. Show notes will also include links to Tammy’s books, the Gift of Words and the Gift of Math, as well as several other resources mentioned in this episode. You’ll also find a link to episode 75, where I talk with members of the PlaySmart literacy team, including several parent play leaders.
57:18
You will not want to miss that episode. As always, you can also hit up the show notes for a link to the why we Play letters. Head to notjustcutecom forward slash podcast. Forward slash episode 74, or go straight to notjustcutecom forward slash why we play to get signed up and download your free sample letter. I’m Amanda Morgan. You can read more on my blog and sign up for the Not Just Cute newsletter at notjustcutecom. You can also stay tuned for social media updates on Instagram by following me at Amanda underscore not just cute. Thanks for listening today and, as always, thank you for standing up for children and for childhood.
