Challenging behaviors seem to be on the rise in preschool classrooms. Prerna Richards, of Together We Grow, specializes in supporting educators with a behavior coaching program. In this episode, she shares what she believes is behind this increase, and what can be done to better help our youngest learners.
You can now also find Not Just Cute: The Podcast on Spotify and Amazon Music!
Notes from the Show:
(*May contain affiliate links.)
Sign up for Prerna’s master class (April 21st, 2024) here.
Find more about Prerna’s work and resources on her site, Together We Grow, and her YouTube Channel.
Why We Play
Share the importance of play with the Why We Play letters! Learn more about Why We Play and sign up for the sample letter at the bottom to ensure you hear about any VIP discounts by clicking here!
Transcript
The latest Apple update automatically produces searchable transcripts for podcasts on their platform. That transcript can be fully utilized inside the Apple Podcast app.
This transcript was created with Podium.
Highlights:
(00:16 – 00:59) Improving Early Childhood Education Behavior Management (42 Seconds)
(05:24 – 06:54) Finding Passion and Purpose in Work (90 Seconds)
(07:48 – 09:20) Challenging Behaviors in Early Education (93 Seconds)
(13:29 – 14:31) Communication and Behavior Training (62 Seconds)
(18:30 – 19:55) The Importance of Understanding Stress (85 Seconds)
(21:13 – 22:14) Teaching for Learning, Not Compliance (61 Seconds)
(24:34 – 25:38) Difference Between Compliance and Connection (64 Seconds)
(40:41 – 42:01) Implementing Simple Shifts for Early Educators (80 Seconds)
(45:28 – 46:47) Transforming Challenging Behaviors Master Class (79 Seconds)
Transcript:
00:03 – Amanda (Host)
Hi, I’m Amanda Morgan, and this is Not Just Cute the podcast where we discuss all kinds of topics to help bridge the gap that exists between what we know and what we do in early childhood education. We’re starting conversations with academics, authors, decision makers, educators and parents so that together we can improve the quality of early childhood education while at the same time protecting and respecting the childhood experience. Have you noticed an increase in challenging behaviors in the early childhood classroom? I found it interesting recently that better behavior through positive guidance was one of my early conference breakout sessions and over the other topics have become more popular and requested more frequently, but over the past few years it seems that that behavior breakout session is rising back up toward the top of the requests. Behavior has always been a challenging topic in the early childhood classroom, but something seems to be shifting. Today I’m talking with my friend, prerna Richards, about what might be behind that shift. Prerna is an accomplished trainer, coach and speaker and the woman behind the business. Together we Grow Behavior is one of her specialties and her answer for why those challenging behaviors seem to be on the rise might surprise you.
01:30
You can find this episode’s show notes, which are always full of links, tidbits and resources at notjustcutecom forward slash podcast. Forward slash, episode 73. Before we jump in, a quick reminder that you can check out the why we Play letters and grab a free sample letter by going to notjustcutecom forward slash whyweplay. After using these letters with her preschool for several years, one director, nan, wrote to me saying simply Thank you. So, with several O’s in there, thank you so much. This is exactly what our parents need to know.
02:10
As I’ve said over and over, people don’t value what they don’t understand, so let’s do our best to help others understand and value play. The why we Play letters were written to help you do just that. Grab your sample letter today. Prerna shares so many key insights in this episode on how we approach challenging behaviors in the early childhood classroom. I so enjoyed getting to chat with her. If you’re wondering where to start to make either a subtle or a big shift in how you’re handling challenging behaviors, you’re in the right place. Let’s jump in, prena. I am so excited to have you on the podcast today and for you to be able to share this wealth of knowledge that you have. So thank you for being here.
03:00 – Prerna (Guest)
Thank you for the invitation, Amanda. I’m delighted to be here.
03:04 – Amanda (Host)
Well, I always like to start by getting a little background on the person who is visiting with us today, because I just think context matters first of all, and so I think knowing someone’s journey matters, but I also think it’s inspiring for so many professionals in the early childhood field to see just the various paths and various ways that they use their talents. So could you share a little bit about your own path and what you’re doing now? Thank you for that.
03:30 – Prerna (Guest)
Yes, context does matter. I’ve been in the field of early childhood for 38 years now. This was never my plan, but this was God’s plan and I’m so happy that there was a purpose for my life. This is the most fulfilling job that I’ve had all these years. I’ve loved all the roles that I’ve had over the 38 years and steeped in early childhood, steeped in brain development, steeped in best practices, high quality and almost six years ago which is really surprising to start saying this number now, I have to get used to it Almost six years ago, I started my own business Together we grow.
04:09
Yes, together we grow. And again, it was never my plan, but here it is and I literally just dreamt it. So if somebody is out there thinking, you know, I’d love to leave the teaching world and go into the next world, how do I do this? Dream it and trust the universe to provide it? I literally just put out what brings joy to my heart, and the three things that bring joy to my heart is pd coaching, behavior coaching and consulting for any yc. So I literally dreamt up my own job and I was like that’s what I want to do. I only want to do the parts that bring me joy and no stress. So over the years, you know, I used to do policies and handbooks and curriculum and no no, no, no, no.
04:54
So now my PD is very focused on SEL social emotional learning, trauma, brain challenging behaviors, emotional intelligence, diversity, equity, inclusion these are the topics that I feel I want to talk about and contribute, which leads me into the behavior coaching, and I do coaching in person, I do coaching online, I have a membership and also the NACI consulting, because it’s all coming from research-based best practices. So that that’s what I do and that’s how I got into it. Very kind of overview, loosely.
05:28 – Amanda (Host)
Well, there’s several things I love about it. One is that you, like you, said you dreamt up what I love to do and you find that path, because I relate to that. You know, 20 something years ago, sitting in my advisor’s office during grad school, and she said, what would you love to do? And I said something like you know, I would love to be able to work with lots of different programs and just help them improve what they’re doing. And this was early 2000s and she was like, well, you’d be great at that, but I don’t really know the path for that, right, like that wasn’t a common thing at the time, and so I love seeing the steps that get you there eventually, when you know what you’re really passionate about.
06:01
The other thing I love is that you said you want to do what brings you joy, and then you started listing things that don’t bring a lot of other people joy. So things like challenging behavior, right, yeah. And so I love that, because everybody has a different passion and when we all invest in that passion and share with others that together, that we bring together all those different pieces and that synergy, right.
06:25 – Prerna (Guest)
And you know there’s different and each one of us plays a different role. But I also believe this very deeply that you know, when you are doing something that is your personal legend, then the universe aligns to make it happen for you. And so you know, does it bring you joy? Is it your passion? Are you good at it? Can you make money out of it? Right, when all of that aligns, that’s when you know you’re on the right path. And so why challenging behaviors?
06:55
I, you know I’ve been called the child whisperer. I don’t know. I feel like it’s an inborn talent that I was born with. I just understand children at a different level. I don’t know. I’ve always done it, Even when I was little. Myself, my mom tells me that I could relate to children. I could walk into a room and somehow be the magnet for children and just relate to them at a different level. So maybe it’s a gift, maybe it’s a personal legend, maybe it was meant to be, whatever you want to call it, but I, my heart, goes out to the little humans that are struggling, because the big humans can understand them and can relate to them. So maybe that was a natural path to then start figuring out. Wait what’s happening in your brain, Like why?
07:39
are you doing that, like what is going on underneath the surface, you know, so maybe I just got attracted to it naturally.
07:48 – Amanda (Host)
Well, you and I have crossed paths a lot of times. We keep bumping into each other at different conferences and different gatherings, and so we’ve had some conversations, and one of the things that we have both noticed is a big uptick, a surge in requests for trainings on dealing with challenging behaviors and just so much more need out there for help and assistance and support in helping, like you said, helping these little humans who are dealing with so many different things, and the big humans are struggling with the results of that right Of trying to figure out how to deal with these challenging behaviors. So I want to start. We’re going to get into some of those things, those concepts and strategies that might help us. But I am first curious why do you think that that is, why do you think we’re seeing this surge in behavior challenges in early childhood education right now?
08:46 – Prerna (Guest)
So I think anecdotally, because I haven’t done actual research on it this is just what I’m noticing as I’m going in and out of the classrooms, as I’m talking to teachers. I’m realizing that the grownups are more stressed these days. When we are stressed and we come with our stressed brain, we’re more reactive, our patience is less and we tend to be very like get it done. I’ve already said it to you Like why are you not listening? We get impatient, we get restless, we get snappy, we get you know. So I think this is what my take is. I think almost 85 to 90% of the behaviors that are happening in the classroom is because that grown-up is getting triggered and that grown-up is not able to remain in their calm brain, and so they upload the stress of the child. Instead of downloading your calm, you’re uploading their stress. So it’s a mindset shift, right. So so even this word challenging behaviors I’m really realizing that this word challenging behavior is misleading, because it’s a challenge for the grownups and each one of us gets challenged by something different. The loud noise some teachers get triggered with aggressive behavior, some with rudeness, some with defiance, some with non-listening, some with aggressive like choking other kids, like throwing furniture, this, this, all of these things are happening, but different things trigger different grown-ups, not the same thing. Like you know, the person who’s can’t take it when children start becoming rude is fine when the noise level goes up.
10:26
So what I’ve realized in through the coaching and understanding is that when the grown-ups start looking at their behavior and their, their mindset, that’s when the magic can happen. So you know, I tell teachers, you keep doing the same thing, you’ll get the same results. That’s the definition of insanity. Right? You literally have to DSD, do something different. And that do something different is starting with recognizing your triggers. What is stressing me out here and not everybody should be a teacher. You and I know that If your heart is in the right place and you really want to do this work, if you really want to change the stress in your classroom, start by recognizing what is under your stress and what is underlining stress for you and then come up with a plan to change it. You’re much more effective if you come from inside out versus trying to fix that.
11:27
You know people want to fix the classroom management strategies. They want classroom management. They want the managing isn’t going to change anything, it’s transformation from inside out. You have to look at. You know, the other way to think of this is the stress is high for the children coming into your classroom because they’re coming from homes that are stressful, because parents in general are stressed more these days. I think the pandemic did something to us and I don’t think we’ve been able to snap out of it, which is not overstating it. I think our stress threshold has changed. What we used to be able to bear, we no longer can bear, and so now the little humans are absorbing it. They don’t have any more capacity to bear it. The grownups don’t have capacity to bear it. So mental well-being is where we need to start.
12:19 – Amanda (Host)
Well, I appreciate that whole systems response because it is easy, like you said, to first just focus on the child. And how do we fix these external things? And while I want to make it clear that we’re not saying everything is teacher’s fault right that children misbehaving is not your fault. That’s not the same thing, but that it is really powerful when you recognize that if we start with the thing I have the most control over and that’s me, then that’s a really powerful position to start from and then let that influence.
12:49 – Prerna (Guest)
So you just said something really important and I want to piggyback on that. You said it’s not the teacher’s fault. Yes, it is not the teacher’s fault. But recognizing that the behavior is a form of communication, that behavior is telling me something, is a game changer for the mindset. So, recognizing, instead of focusing on stop doing that. Why are you doing it? Sit down, you’re not listening, stop it. I’ve already asked you, instead of just reacting to what the child is doing, start asking yourself what is this child feeling right now and what are you trying to communicate with me? So even just that much pause is in your control as a teacher.
13:29 – Amanda (Host)
That’s one of the things I say frequently in my behavior. Trainings is often what we see as a failure to behave properly is actually a failure to communicate properly. And when we shift that and say, okay, you’re having a hard time communicating something and I’m having a hard time understanding it, let me look at that a little bit differently. And that’s not to say we remove any boundaries or limits. We’re not saying all of those behaviors are okay. We’re just saying reframe it and and pause. Like you said, be curious what is being communicated here, because that’s something that’s a place I can start. That’s the place I can start. That’s the place.
14:01 – Prerna (Guest)
I can start. That’s the place I can move the needle. That’s a place that I can actually change what’s happening. And just to be clear, I am not saying being rude and aggressive and all of this is okay, I’m not saying right of the believers is okay, but what I am saying is the grown up is not calm enough to handle it and so it escalates further.
14:20 – Amanda (Host)
It’s fascinating the difference I noticed in my own self, my own experience, times that I have been more aware and centered and able to respond in a non-reactive calm. You know, don’t take it personally, let’s pause and think through this the way that that goes versus times when I have been more triggered and, to be quite honest, I feel like I was far more patient as a teacher. And those times when I think been more triggered and, to be quite honest, I feel like I was far more patient as a teacher and those times when I think of that I let myself be triggered too quickly is usually with my own children. That there’s a difference, right.
14:50 – Prerna (Guest)
When.
14:50 – Amanda (Host)
I take off, I forgot my professional hat. I left it somewhere else and I responded differently. And when I see the difference in how that plays out you know, when my children were little it was it was just such a reminder that it isn’t just a professional hat, it’s how do we interact with children and it really impacts you just, yeah, you just took me back to when I had little children.
15:16 – Prerna (Guest)
So you know, I was a teacher when my daughters were little. Now they’re in their 30s and they’re mothers themselves and I have grandchildren now, but I left all my patients in the classroom. I think sometimes teachers make the worst mothers because we just give so much over there that we have zero, nothing left at home. And I remember just always feeling like why does nobody listen and why is nobody helping me? Like why is this all up to me? Like nobody’s cleaning the house and nobody’s like. The mindset was always like everybody just needs me to do this and I’m tired and I don’t have the patience and I don’t have the bandwidth.
15:49 – Amanda (Host)
But they were little and so you had to show up, like so, yeah, yeah, so so many amazing people in this profession that are wearing so many hats, and it’s just remarkable. Well, one of the things that you touched on and I want to dig a little bit deeper into is that often, when we see these behaviors that we feel triggered by or that we are seeing is challenging, that our first impulse is to fix it, to correct it, to immediately change it. And and you talk a lot about the importance of connecting connection over correction Um, can you talk a lot about the importance of connecting connection over correction? Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like and why that shift in perception matters?
16:28 – Prerna (Guest)
Okay, I’m so happy you went there.
16:31
I was in a school last week and I was doing in-person observations and this there was a child. This is a preschool classroom and there’s a child. Who she is I’m just going to call her Sally just to keep her anonymous, but it’s a real story. This little girl is a little bit big built and she is on the spectrum and so from the school district she is getting a shadow, and the school district shadow is supposed to be there to assist her and to help her transition, because she goes to the ISD in the morning and she comes to this preschool in the afternoon. And this is what I saw when I walked into this classroom for the observation.
17:16
They were by the window and right next to the window is the cozy cube and this little girl is having some issues. She’s not complying and the grownup is insisting on compliance. She wants her to go to the cozy cube and this girl does not want to go to the cozy cube and she keeps repeating herself that’s not a choice, because she keeps wanting to get up and walk away from her and she keeps blocking her with her arm and making her sit down, and so she keeps reinforcing her and she keeps saying that’s not a choice right now? That’s not a choice right now. The only choice you have right now is get in the cozy cube. Get in the cozy cube. You need to calm your body down. I’m trying to help you but she just kept. She was in the spiral herself. The girl was getting really agitated and I’m going to shrink down the time because I don’t have the time to give you the whole detail so the girl was getting agitated and she’s crying and she’s getting desperate and she’s telling her you know, I hate you, get away from me, I don’t like you, leave me alone. Like she’s trying to get away from her. She tries to go under the furniture, behind the furniture, and this grown up keeps dragging her out and keeps. So all of this is happening and she keeps insisting that she needs to go in there.
18:30
At one point that little girl got so exhausted that she climbed into a small sofa, a white sofa, a child sofa, and she curled up like the curled up position with her knees and her elbows and like she was physically drained and exhausted and and she just needed some. And that would have been the perfect time for this grown-up to really understand that she’s getting so triggered and she’s so stressed that I cannot get compliance right now. But this grown-up was also so triggered. Her face was red. She was putting up her hair in ponytail. She took off her jacket, like she is getting all this worked up right, and I was thinking to myself. I’m like, oh my God, you’re focusing so much on the compliance, you want her to go in the cozy cube so badly, but you’re not recognizing that there’s a little human involved and she is stressed out right now. She has. She doesn’t know what to do and you know she lifted. So she lifted her off the white sofa. She shoved the sofa next to the cozy cube because she really wanted compliance. She wanted her word to be followed. She was in charge. She was going to break this, she was not going to have this happen and this is how it was going to go down.
19:42
I don’t know. I was very sad that day. It really disturbed me that day. That is this what early childhood has come down to. We are so focused on compliance and we are so focused on trying to make a little human just comply.
19:55
In the end, this little girl just gave up. She just she had no strength left. She had no capacity. She just gave in and then she went into the cozy cube and then this big grownup took her there and she did some writing and then she left and then she’s like, oh, four-year-old’s, like you know, she’s saying it under her breath and I’m thinking in the moment this would have gone down so differently had that grownup just come with compassion and connection instead of compliance. She could have just sat next to her. She could have just sat next to her. She could have rubbed her back and said I see this is really hard for you. I understand you don’t want to go to cozy cube, that’s fine. I just want you to relax where you are, just let your body relax.
20:31
When she had got into the chair, she could have just given her a moment. Okay, that’s fine, you’re safe on the chair, I’m not going to move you, it’s okay, I’m going to follow your cue. That’s what connection sounds like versus compliance and it’s a game changer and I’m seeing it in so many classrooms right now the focus and I have so many examples, amanda, I have so many examples where the compliance becomes the grownup just feels like I am going to make you listen. I am the grownup and you will follow instructions and you will listen and this will go down the way. I’m saying it and I just my heart is going out to children because they don’t have a voice, because that grown-up dominates them and convinces them and makes them do it. And really, if you know the survival brain, this girl was showing all the survival brain symptoms. There was flight happening, she was trying to withdraw from her, there was shutdown, there was freeze, there was crying, all of the body symptoms were showing that she was beyond stressed out.
21:28
What are you trying to teach her? What are you trying to teach her? Is it worth it? Is it worth it to break the spirit of a little human? No, it’s not.
21:37 – Amanda (Host)
No, and that question, I think, is really important. What you just said, what are you really trying to teach her Because there’s a difference between you must sit in this cozy cube. Was that really the objective? Or was the objective to be able to, like you said they did, some writing or something? If the objective if we can really be clear about the actual objective is to get into a spot, find a spot where we can focus on this activity and maybe we could be more open, I just think that’s such an important question. What are you really trying to teach her? Are you trying to teach her to give in and do compliance, like you said, do whatever you said or is it to create a specific situation for learning? So I would go deeper than that.
22:14 – Prerna (Guest)
So, before learning can happen, we have to have a calm brain. So self-regulation has to happen. Self-regulation is really, if you break it down, three parts to self-regulation what am I feeling, what caused it and how can I help myself right now. Right, self-regulation is basic. What am I feeling right now? What caused it? How can I help myself?
22:35
Before children can self-regulate, grownups have to co-regulate Right, self-regulate grown-ups have to co-regulate. Right, for the grown-up to co-regulate, the objective has to be very clear. I am going to treat you with respect. I’m going to help you to regulate your emotions because you’re really stressed out right now. So, again, download your calm, don’t upload the stress, right. So my goal right now is to calm your brain down and then you’ll be ready to learn.
23:03
But if a child is dysregulated, getting stuck on the goal, that the goal right now is to practice writing or the goal right now is to sit crisscross on the circle, or the goal right, that is not the goal. That is not the goal. The goal is to help that child to regulate and to know that you are the calm anchor that I can lean on you. And what is she going to remember from this incident? She’s going to remember that this grown up didn’t get me, this grown up forced me. This grown up I don’t like. Is she going to comply the next time? No, probably not. She’s probably going to have power struggles every single time she sees this grown-up because she’s going to get triggered that she was so crushed that day.
23:46
And the funny thing was and the good thing, not funny, the good thing. I want to end the story with saying that when the shadow left because she had got compliance in the end and she’d broken the child spirit, she left. The teachers who actually belonged to that preschool I think their heart was feeling the same. I was feeling and they switched it completely into play and connection and this little girl was laughing and she was joining in play and there was fun. And so when we were debriefing, we all went in the debrief saying that was just sad today, that was just heavy and sad, and they were like I’m so embarrassed, you saw that. But our goal was, when she left, we were going to pour love into that little girl and that little girl was a different child I would never have known. She was on the spectrum. Never would have known.
24:28
So being on the spectrum is not an excuse. Whether you’re on the spectrum or not, no child deserves this much compliance. I’m happy that you asked the difference between compliance and connection. Connection sounds different, feels different and looks different. Compliance sounds, feels and looks different. Connection comes from a place of understanding. Connection comes from a place of ask before tell what’s going on, what’s happening. I can see you’re struggling right now. What’s going on? Do you need help? Instead of don’t do that? See that’s compliance, stop it. Connection and correct Connection before correction. Connection before curriculum. Connection before correction. Connection before curriculum. Connection before compliance. Every time, connection wins. Why? Because we’re humans. Our heart relates to that. I don’t care what you know. If you can’t connect with my heart, you’re nobody to me, right? So yeah, the goal might be writing, the goal might be whatever, but first I have to connect with you.
25:33 – Amanda (Host)
I have to understand where you’re coming from. I have to be able to see your perspective before I can focus on compliance. Just that validation, and that humanity is such a crucial part. So what do you say when you get pushback or questions that isn’t this permissive, isn’t this, won’t this create chaos, those kinds of different pushbacks? How do you respond to that?
25:51 – Prerna (Guest)
Yeah, really good question. So what I’m saying is acknowledge and validate. You look really frustrated right now. I’m going to stick with this example of this little girl. You look really stressed out right now. You are really crying and upset. I understand, I understand.
26:05
So acknowledge and validate doesn’t mean I’m giving in, right, I’m going to acknowledge and validate so that, just so that you feel seen and heard and understood. And then I’m going to ask her would you like a hug right now, even though it feels counterintuitive, because this child is trying to get away from me and saying get away from me and I hate you, but she’s saying that because she’s so stressed out, right, those words are not what she’s meaning. She’s just doesn’t know what else to do. So once you validate and acknowledge okay, you look really upset right now. You look really stressed out right now. It must be really hard for you right now. Would you like some help? We are cleaning up right now. We are going to pick up our toys. That’s what we’re doing. You have a choice you can pick up by yourself or I can help you to pick up, but the pickup is going to happen, right. So I take you back to getting the task done. I’m not saying they get to do whatever, because that would be chaos.
26:56
Nobody learns, not children, not grownups. Children are not running the classroom. They need the grownups to run the classroom, but they need the grownups to first understand and connect with them and then they will comply with you, because they want to please us. Children want to please grownups. So it’s not a free for all which is also a misunderstanding that if I have a playful environment or if I have a play-based learning, then it’s chaos. It’s not true. It is not true. So, yes, you acknowledge, you validate, but you go forward that this is what we’re doing right now. I understand you want to continue playing right now, but right now it’s time to clean up and pick up. But you can definitely come back and play some more. I understand you’re disappointed right now. You wanted longer with the blocks. I understand I would feel disappointed too if I was enjoying, but right now we’re going to pick this up and you maybe have time later. How does that sound versus pick it up right now? I’ve already told you so many times. You never listen. How does that sound?
27:54 – Amanda (Host)
Yeah, it feels completely different, right Sounds feels and looks different.
28:00 – Prerna (Guest)
So it’s not chaos. It’s not just do whatever. You’re still guiding the ship. You’re still the captain of the ship. That classroom is your ship. You still have to get to point A from point B, right, but it’s not everybody just becoming whatever. It’s not that.
28:19 – Amanda (Host)
Right.
28:19
I think so often when I hear those criticisms that it’s it’s passive, it’s indulgent, it’s ruining children, and that the descriptions that usually accompany that are not accurate to the philosophy, it may be what they’re actually seeing.
28:33
I do think, unfortunately, sometimes there are people who think they’re practicing what you’re describing and they are actually being indulgent or permissive, and so there’s that key piece in there that you talked about that you have to acknowledge and validate, make those connections first and foremost, and then be very clear about what is the actual boundary that is going to remain consistent and that there are choices within that boundary that we can offer the children. But that boundary is still very clear and, as you said, the teacher is still very much aware and in control of where those boundaries need to be. And I think that so often those criticisms are missing a why that that connection is so important from a neurological, from a human standpoint, as well as the fact that the teacher, like you said, is still in control and is still setting boundaries. But they’re doing it compassionately, and you just said something that I want to follow up as well.
29:26 – Prerna (Guest)
You said you know and is still setting boundaries, but they’re doing it compassionately. Yeah, and you just said something that I want to follow up as well. You said you know that some of the people that think they’re doing this but they’re not really doing this, I think it’s because there’s no follow through. So discipline is not a bad word. I’m not against discipline. I love the word discipline, I love the word guidance and so anybody listening. I don’t want them to feel like, oh, you’re just airy-fairy and you’re letting the kids do whatever and you just get no, not at all Discipline is disciple?
29:55
right, it comes from. Disciple is to learn. But you have to remember in that moment what do you want the child to get out of this? What do you want them to learn out of this? And at the most, at the top, I definitely want them to feel like they have self-esteem and self-worth, because if I dismiss you every single time, they’re going to stop trusting their own judgment. They’re not going to trust their emotions If I don’t ever validate and acknowledge that you’re feeling disappointed. That’s got a name to it. Oh my God, I felt disappointed tons of times.
30:24
It sucks it doesn’t feel good at all, but that’s what you’re experiencing right now. That’s what it is, but I promise you you can handle it. So, having a consequences and using an assertive voice this you know, I don’t know. You said that and it made me think of that, because people shy away from an assertive voice. Every time I say to people you know, you have to use an assertive voice, immediately their brain goes to oh no, I can’t be mean, I cannot be that person.
30:51
I don’t want to be mean. Grownups are mean to me. I’m not going to be mean to the children. We’re just not going to do that. Assertive is not mean, right. Assertive is confident. So you know, recently I’ve been flying a lot here, there, everywhere, for work, and so the example that comes to my mind because I love analogies in my brain is the air hostess. The air hostess has a very clear assertive voice. She’s not asking you a question, she’s not doubting herself. She’s not saying would you like to put your seatbelt on? She’s not saying that. She’s not even doubting herself that we need to put our seatbelts on. Put your seatbelt on, put the tray table up. That’s a confident voice. That’s what educators need. You’re not mean, you’re not aggressive, you’re not dominating, you’re not controlling, you’re just validating. I understand you’re disappointed right now. I understand you wanted to continue playing. Time is over right now. Unfortunately, we’re going to play later.
31:54 – Amanda (Host)
But we’re moving this forward. Yeah, I think you hit on something really important. It’s that assertive voice is confident, it’s also very clear and it’s very kind, and you can do all three of those things at the same time.
32:02 – Prerna (Guest)
Yeah, so I have actually an acronym for that. You see, this conversation is so beautiful. I actually have an acronym for that that you just you see this conversation is so beautiful because I actually have an acronym for that. Whether it’s parenting or whether it’s educating, it’s K L F F, k L F F. Be kind, be loving, be firm and fair. Children understand all of these words. They know when you’re being unkind, they know when you don’t love them and they can’t learn from you if you don’t love them. And they need you to be firm. Firm means I have consequences. I have followed through. I understand, I acknowledge, but wait, I’m not going to give in right now. But I’m also fair. It’s not that some children have to pick up and some children get away from picking up. Some children can do this and some children I get called up like you have to be fair because otherwise children lose all respect for you.
32:53 – Amanda (Host)
Yeah, and I think, circling back to what you mentioned about discipline, that sometimes we shy away from the word discipline and I think a key thing that I often remind people is that discipline is not a verb, it’s not something you do to someone. I mean it’s used that way, but in the truest sense of the word, it’s not something you can do to a child, but it is something that is found in someone, and so we want to be able to come from a point that helps to build that self-discipline. It has to be found within a person, a child or an adult. But this idea that discipline is something we do to someone, we will discipline them, that’s not effective. It’s not the way we’re wired. But discipline is a beautiful word when we focus on how do we help build this discipline?
33:34 – Prerna (Guest)
And trusting that children are capable, intelligent and smart. I trust that that little human has that. I know that they have self-discipline. It just hasn’t emerged yet, so we need some practice time. We haven’t mastered it yet. We’re working on it, and that’s what preschool should be we’re mastering our self-discipline. We’re mastering on self-mastery. We’re mastering on self-regulation. We’re mastering these life skills behavior.
34:11 – Amanda (Host)
Again, we see it as this challenge in and of itself, but often, like we said, it often represents a challenge of communicating, but it’s also often a representation of some skills that still need to be built right, this body of skills that young children are developing. And in the same way that if a child comes into the classroom and doesn’t know their ABCs, we don’t send them to the corner until they figure it out, or they don’t know’t know their ABCs, we don’t send them to the corner until they figure it out, or they don’t know how to tie their shoes, we don’t send them to timeout until they figure it out, and the same concept that, the same way that we need to teach them things about the alphabet, things about self-help skills, there are many other skills that they still need help and support and learning and growth that we just see as a behavior problem.
34:48 – Prerna (Guest)
So you just touched on something really key. You can give what you don’t have. The grownups don’t have it because we weren’t raised like this. Something has shifted in the last 10, 12 years and now the more we know about the brain and the more we know about the importance of social emotional learning. We have to bring that in, because if you weren’t raised with labeling emotions I certainly wasn’t this was not a natural thing that I was doing when my girls were little. I’m a different grandmother now than I was a mother.
35:19
You can’t get what you don’t have, and so if your emotional needs are not met and you’re task oriented, you’re going to get that. Teachers teach who they are. A stressed out teacher teaches stress. A joyful teacher teaches joy.
35:30 – Amanda (Host)
So what are some of those other skills that you feel like we need to recognize that we are teaching every day with our young learners? So, like you’ve mentioned, being able to verbalize and label emotions, recognize and verbalize those emotions what are some of those other skills that we need to remind ourselves that they don’t come to our classroom preset ready with those skills? What are some of those skills we may take for granted and we need to recognize that we are supporting those rather than seeing just the outward behavior problem?
35:58 – Prerna (Guest)
Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. So, definitely increasing the vocabulary of emotional intelligence. So one of the tools if you’re looking for specific tools on how to recognize more emotions, start educating yourself in emotional vocabulary. So Brene Brown has done a lot of work with emotional intelligence, so you might have to learn some of this yourself because you may not have it, so you can’t give it to somebody who doesn’t have it. So educate yourself on the wide range of emotions. I’m going to give you one example. In a classroom where there was a lot of aggression, a lot of anger, and the kids were really aggressive, I had the teacher make like a thermometer. You know, remember the old-fashioned thermometer?
36:41
that like when we were doing, you know, donations for the school and we were seeing the money rise. Label the emotions from irritated, frustrated, to slightly upset, to angry, mad, livid, furious, like you see the range of even anger. It’s not just mad, sad, happy, right, right. And so we put this tool up in the classroom and it became a strategy for the teacher to then talk to the kids Can you tell me where you’re feeling from one to 10? Where are you? Is it mildly irritating right now Somebody took your toy or is it a big deal right now? That’s part of self-regulation, right? That’s part of self-understanding. Where am I right now? Self-regulation, right, that’s part of self-understanding. Where am I right now?
37:31
So you have to do this work throughout the day. You’ve got to bring these vocabulary words to life. So one is educate yourself with the different emotions, because we are most of us are just using the 510 on the surface and there’s more than 700 plus emotions. So educate yourself on emotions and I actually have that book behind me, the berniene Brown Atlas of the Heart, beautiful book. And so educate yourself. Then bring the vocabulary to life for children. What does that look like, feel like, sound like? Are you disappointed or are you discouraged or are you absolutely devastated, right? So I’m bringing in new vocabulary for them to life and then I’m practicing it. Even words like self-control, even words like self-regulation. Show me whole body. Listening sounds so much better than sit crisscross applesauce. Show me whole body. Listening is a very visual. I’m listening with my eyes, I’m listening in my ears. Your body is still. I’m showing you self-control.
38:30 – Amanda (Host)
It also gives them that, that concept, that this is what listening is, this is. I’ve loved it. There’s so many parallels. This is something I teach as well, that when we say, show me good listening, that for most three and four and five-year-olds they’re going to say what, what does that look like? My mouth is quiet, Is that good?
38:52 – Prerna (Guest)
You is quiet. Is that good, you know? Is that all I need to do? Some adults as well, right? What is good listening really like? But also this judgment of good and bad, uh-huh. I just don’t think that’s helpful because it’s too way. I think it’s better to say you’re making a safe choice and an unsafe choice and why is that unsafe right?
39:00
is it destroying the property? Is it destroying another human? Is it destroying? Is it crushing the feelings like what? What is I’m saying about this? So I think, in terms of tools, bring it to life which is what you show, with that whole body listening.
39:16 – Amanda (Host)
Then they know this is what listening is, and it is my whole body. It’s just so much more useful as a tool rather than compliance. Like you said right, crisscross applesauce, my focus is compliance whole body listening. My focus is teaching them a tool that they can use in many other situations and they’ll have that reference point.
39:33 – Prerna (Guest)
And they’ve just now learned how to do self-control which is a life skill and when you label emotions, you’re just now co-regulating them and you’re teaching them why it matters that, how I feel, because what I feel inside happens. What happens outside, right, that’s like I don’t know. Know, maybe this is why I love talking about the brain and SEO, because the cognitive will come. They’re born ready to learn. The cognitive will come. The numbers, colors, shapes they will get it, but first they have to feel.
40:02
I have another acronym sorry, amanda, I have so many, I love it. I love connections so old, I need acronyms in my brain. I’ve come up with an acronym it’s called SAIL. When I feel safe, when I feel accepted, when I feel included, I am ready to learn. You can’t stop me, but I have to feel like I belong in your classroom. I have to feel accepted for who I am, that you’re not trying to just fix me, that I’m something wrong. You just want compliance out of me. That’s just fixing me. Accept me for who I am, include me, and then I learn. I’m born ready to learn.
40:38 – Amanda (Host)
Yeah, those connections are so important. If someone is listening today and they’re thinking, okay, I need to change so much, or there’s so many things that they’re listening and they’re thinking this is a whole huge shift and maybe that feels overwhelming. If you could give just one thing for early educators, if they’re thinking I’m going to start with one simple shift, where would you say is the best place for them to start?
41:03 – Prerna (Guest)
I’ll give you two, okay, one. Become a breathing program. Take deep breaths throughout the day. There’s so much research behind deep breaths and oxygen in your brain. It’ll help your brain to remain in the calm brain. The research says 90 seconds, 90 seconds, 90 seconds of pause can shift you from reacting to responding. And when we started the conversation I was talking about how the behaviors are linked to the grownup. I hope now it’s making sense. Why?
41:31
I say that right, that we’ve come a whole circle now and so, recognizing that I’m getting stressed out, taking deep breaths with the kids, starting from the baby classroom all the way up, the children should get the oxygen in their brain. You get the oxygen in your brain. That’s step number two. Step number one. Step number two is know your triggers, really do the work and write down your triggers who, what, when, where, how are you getting triggered? Pick one trigger at a time and then have a plan. I’ll give you one simple example in case you’re like that’s just too big, I don’t know where to begin. I had a teacher who said to me she was in the toddler classroom and she said you know, they keep telling me to get down on the floor and play with the kids. I would love to train her, but when I get down on the floor, they start climbing all over me and they start using me as a jungle gym and I can’t handle it, like literally I can’t handle it. It stresses me out too much, and so I’m now not sitting down on the floor because I just can’t take all of them climbing all over me with the hands and the hair, and this is too much, and I could see her blood pressure rising Like she was definitely getting stressed out with that. So I said okay, now that you know this about yourself, what are you going to do about it? Now that you’ve identified that them climbing on you is so stressful for you that you cannot do it, what are you going to do about it? So I left that with her just to think about it and simmer on it, because, as a coach, I can give you the answer. The answer is inside you.
42:56
The next time I went to her classroom, it was a different classroom and at the debrief I was like how’s it going? She had the biggest smile. I said why are you out of the toddler classroom? What happened? You changed classroom? She said no. After you told me to look at my triggers, I realized that them climbing on me was the problem. So I started creating a boundary for them. I said this is my body, this is your body. I’m okay if you give me a hug, but nobody’s going to climb on me. I said how did that go down? She said it was beautiful. They sat right next to me, our legs were touching. I didn’t get triggered. Nobody climbed on me. They respected me and I respected them, and it has now changed my dynamics in the classroom.
43:35 – Amanda (Host)
I love that, and there’s two to me, two really important things in that. One again, instead of focusing on just the compliance of it, she taught them in a useful way this is my body, these are my boundaries. Here’s how you can help respect that. And that gives them the language to ask for that themselves. It gives them the skill to respect other people’s boundaries. That’s so much more useful. It’s focusing on learning rather than the correction or the compliance.
44:02
But the other thing that I think is powerful, when you know your triggers, when you do that work, like you said that one, just like you described you know how to set the right boundaries and how to support yourself so that you can come from a better place. But the other thing that I’ve found is useful is, if you have more than one teacher in that classroom, that when you communicate that with one another, you can watch out for each other and step in and help and say, ooh, I know that she’s going to have a hard time dealing with this situation, but it doesn’t bother me, so I’m just going to step in. And you can support each other so much better when you are understanding of one another’s triggers and can support in the way that that each other needs.
44:40 – Prerna (Guest)
And that’s where you begin. And that’s where you begin. And I, you know, have tons of free resources on my website. I have a YouTube channel and this, that, and you can listen to podcasts and this and that. But if you really want to do bite size, just try to get your brain to not get the stress place, because stress is common, it’s happening, admit it. We’re all in it. Nobody’s excluded from it, me included, right? We all have to learn to manage it. It’s happening, it’s real.
45:05 – Amanda (Host)
Well, I love that and you do have so many resources. I’ll have lots of them linked in the show notes, but do you want to share one or two that are easy to share over over? Just the audio, and then I’ll have lots and lots of links as well, because I know you have so many things that you offer.
45:18 – Prerna (Guest)
yeah, so together we growonline is my website and together we growonline has free downloads. It has the access to the youtube channel. It has previous podcasts. I’m not sure when this will air, but I have a free master class coming up on April 21st which is for transforming challenging behaviors. I also have a certification coming up behavior intervention specialist certification that I’m offering in May and June and I’ve never offered that it’s the very first time because I want to help as many people in different schools to become coaches so that they can then support the teacher. So it’s coaching the coaches, so schools can have their own person and really the work is grounded in brain development and social, emotional.
46:01 – Amanda (Host)
And it works.
46:02 – Prerna (Guest)
It’s already helped hundreds of people.
46:04 – Amanda (Host)
It works so fantastic and this should air before that first masterclass. So if you’re hearing this on the first download it class, the free mastermind is April 21st.
46:22 – Prerna (Guest)
And I don’t know when it will air, so it doesn’t matter. But the resources on the website are still free and you can download whatever you want Anytime. Sign up for the newsletter. You know I used to send it out every week but that was too stressful. But now it goes out. When it goes out when there’s value to add, so and again you can get that in your inbox and get little nuggets along the way.
46:46 – Amanda (Host)
So fantastic. Breyna, thank you so much for all that you’ve offered here, but all that you’re offering for young children and for educators of young children, it’s really such a wealth and such a beautiful way to support all of these people in our learning community. So thank you for sharing that with us.
47:01 – Prerna (Guest)
Thank you, Amanda. This was a pleasure and a joy to connect with you. It was such an easy conversation because I think we’re both on the same wavelength, you know, and I admire your work as well, so thank you for the work you do, thank you.
47:11 – Amanda (Host)
Thanks again for listening to Not Just Cute the podcast. You can find show notes at notjustcutecom forward slash podcast forward slash episode 73. There you’ll find links to Prerna’s site resources and upcoming masterclass. If you’re listening to this episode shortly after it airs, that masterclass is coming right up, so don’t delay. You can also hit up the show notes for a link to the why we Play letters. Head to notjustcutecom forward slash podcast forward slash episode 73 or go straight to notjustcutecom forward slash why we Play to get signed up and download your free sample letter. I’m Amanda Morgan. You can read more on my blog and sign up for the Not Just Cute newsletter at notjustcutecom. You can also stay tuned for social media updates on Instagram by following me at Amanda underscore not just cute. Thanks for listening today and, as always, thank you for standing up for children and for childhood.
